Analyzing Lead Sheets

[Michael Kiese]

Aloha Everyone,

Just thought I'd start a new thread for the good of the order.

There is definitely a mine field out there when reading charts. Some charts are definitely written better than others. Some charts are just plain bad.

So here's a thread that will hopefully help you distinguish between a "good" and a "bad" chart.

Instead of saying what a "Bad" chart is, I'd rather point out the features of a "Good" chart.

"Good" Charts Are:
1) Easily legible. Needs to be easy to read. Nice big notes. Dark Ink.
2) Good layout. A good layout allows the musician to easily see the entire form of the song at a glance. 4 bars per line is best, but at least keep the bars per line an even number. No 3, 5, 7, or 9 bar lines.
3) The melody MUST be written correctly.
4) The written changes should be simple enough to highlight the melody without becoming too specific and cumbersome for the musician reading the chart. Great composers like Jobim will actually utilize specific chords which will highlight the melody. Most of the time, I find a simple dominant chord will do, and insisting on a specific altered chord is unnecessary, and it unnecessarily forces both the accompanist and the soloist into a specific sound when other options and colors are equally acceptable.

I'm by no means attempting to be an authoritative source. Rather, I'm just sharing my observations and offering best practices to help you avoid the many pitfalls that are out there when reading charts.

[Michael Kiese]

Here's Bernie's Tune from the New Real Book by Sher Music. Co.

First off, it checks off most of my criteria for a good chart. Easy to read, great layout, correct melody, and changes support the melody (David M Brown has a valid contention, which will be addressed).

So if this chart were plopped down on my music stand, and I had to sight read it, here are the things I'd immediately notice:

1) Key signature of F
2) AABA Song Form
3) A section is pretty much D minor language
4) B section is 1625 in key of Bb

Ok, now going into further analysis...

When reading a Jazz Lead Sheet, the key signature may or may not be helpful because in Jazz, tonal centers move all the time. You can have "keys of the moment". That said, taking note of the key signature gives you a starting point.

The A section is all D minor language. The thing about that is, you have to keep in mind that there are 3 main types of Dminor. Dorian, Phrygian, and Aeolian. Without getting too far into the weeds, it would just mean Dminor with the key signature of C major, F major, or Bb major. That said, it's jazz. Everything is justified if you make it feel right.

The B section is obviously 1625 in the Key of Bb. That said the key signature is F. That kind of thing happens all the time in charts. Don't worry about it. Keys of the moment, remember? But I suppose someone COULD argue that Bb Lydian would work. But what really matters is what you can make sound good on the bandstand, not in the classroom or behind your keyboard. If it sounds good and feels good, that's all that matters.

Finally to address what David M. Brown pointed out in this chart: he'd prefer that the Bb9 be written as a Bb9b5. The reason being the melody note of E natural is the b5 of Bb, which is correct. He has a valid point.

Here's my take...this is a gray area of personal preference and music theory.

As a working class musician who went to public school in Hawai'i, I'd prefer that it just be written as a simple Bb7. Bb7 is the V of Em7b5. Everything is just going V to I. Here's my reasoning: Yes, the melody note is E. That said, the melody would be played in a higher octave, especially if a trumpet or sax had the head. So it wouldn't rub against the F of the Bb7.

As a rhythm guitarist, you're mostly chunking the 3rds and 7th anyway. You never know what the piano player will do, but if they're cool, they'll know how to support the melody too.

Furthermore, a Dominant 7 chord is a Dominant 7 chord. Whether it's a plain jane Bb7, or a Bbalt, or a Bb#9#5, or a Bbb9#5... They all function as a dominant 7 chord.

I'd rather read "Bb7" and then as the musician reading the chart, I have the option of coloring the Bb7 however I want. But if you write it as "Bb9b5". THAT is VERY confusing to the eye. For example is it a B with a b9b5, or is it a Bb with a 9 and b5?

That kind of stuff will drive you CRAZY. Keep it simple. Bb7 works, and it's easy to sight read and get right the first time.

If you keep the chords simple, then the beginner and intermediate musicians can focus on getting the right feel instead of worrying about getting the exact chord alteration. The advanced players have an advanced understanding of harmony, and they can navigate the alterations of colors as they see fit. They'll know how to not make it clash against the piano vs guitar vs melody if all are playing at the same time. HOPEFULLY. lol.

Most jazz is played in Jam session situations, so it's kind of a circus "whatever happens, happens" kind of deal. If you're playing a society gig, it's best to just play it safe and talk things out beforehand. If you're playing a concert, or supporting an Artist, then the Artist may tell you if there is an EXACT chord voicing he/she wants.

Whether the chord in question is written as a Bb7, Bb9, or Bb9b5...It's pretty much just personal preference, and it doesn't make the chart "wrong". All the options are valid. In the end, it's just a Bb7 going to some kind of E chord. I just prefer Bb7 because it conveys the movement of the chord progression in the most pragmatic manner.

Just my 2¢. Hope it helped!

[Twayn Williams]

I'd prefer to use Bb7#11 at the 3rd bar. You want to avoid a minor 2nd with the melody if at all possible, regardless of instrument register. It's also a useful signal to the rhythm section as it's NOT just a "color" note, but a melody note.

That being said, on rhythm guitar, I'd probably just play a Bb7 minus the 5th -- which is how I tend to play most dominant chords anyway. On 6-string E13 steel, I'd probably hit the 5th automatically, as my main dominant grips use the 5th by default. And I'd cringe every time I did that when the melody went by. And then I'd need to find a better grip to avoid the F - probably the bottom 3 strings, 6th fret.

How do you figure that the Bb7 is the V of E-7b5? I just see the first 6 bars as a standard minor key 1-6-2-5, i.e:

i - VI7 - ii7b5 - V7b9.

The phrase "correct" melody is a minefield of interpretation. For most standards, I would think that term "common" melody would be more applicable. After all, in jazz there is no "definitive" score as there is in classical.

Also, I want to be clear here that I pretty much agree with most of what you've written and I hope I'm not coming off as too argumentative

[Michael Kiese]

Sup Twane,

Not taken as argumentative at all! Thanks for chiming in!

I think it's really important to have discussions like this to demonstrate that you don't have to go to music school to learn this stuff. Just talking this stuff out IS the learning process.

For me, the streets were my classroom and people were my books, so I'm just trying to pay it forward to hopefully light a path to future young musicians.

I'd prefer to use Bb7#11 at the 3rd bar. You want to avoid a minor 2nd with the melody if at all possible, regardless of instrument register. It's also a useful signal to the rhythm section as it's NOT just a "color" note, but a melody note.

I can see your point. Ideally, any potential potholes in the roadmap should be discussed beforehand. Pragmatically, this almost never happens, lol.

You're right in that the E is a melody note based upon the b5 or #11 of a chord. I would point out that there IS a difference between a b5 and a #11. The #11 is in the next higher octave, it's an *extension*.

I do agree that you want to avoid minor 2nds (sometimes they can sound nice though). That said, much like there is a difference between a b5 and a #11 (octave displacement), a minor 2nd and a b9 are an octave displaced.

The larger the relative distance there are between notes, the more my ear accepts dissonance. So I'm not really worried about #11 clashing with the 5th of a chord, especially if it's displaced by an octave or two. I think that's just personal taste. I actually like the sound of a "Cowboy Bb7" barred at the 1st fret on guitar with a High E played on the 1st string, 12th fret. You can play the E string open, or fretted at the 12th fret. Makes me smile when I hear it. haha. I don't know why. It's like I'm getting away with something "naughty".

I highly encourage you to try it out for yourself! Grab an acoustic guitar, play the cowboy Bb7 bar chord at the 1st fret, and then play that high E string either open or at the 12th fret. See what you think.

But again, that Bb dominant chord is still behaving like a Bb dominant chord. It's wanting to resolve to an A7.

That being said, on rhythm guitar, I'd probably just play a Bb7 minus the 5th -- which is how I tend to play most dominant chords anyway. On 6-string E13 steel, I'd probably hit the 5th automatically, as my main dominant grips use the 5th by default. And I'd cringe every time I did that when the melody went by. And then I'd need to find a better grip to avoid the F - probably the bottom 3 strings, 6th fret.

yeah, I can see how 6 string E13 would present that problem... The 5th you're playing might be in the 3rd or 4th octave of piano, and you might not have many options to play that E melody note over a Bb7. I'd say try it anyway and see how it sounds.

Bust out that 6 string E13 and actually play the chord progression of Dm, Bb7, Em7b5, A7.

I think if you did try it, you'd have more problems than playing a #11 chord. You'd have problems just playing a D minor triad, much less an Em7b5 chord.

Playing jazz on 6 string E13 seems to me like an exercise in futility and frustration. C6 or A6 are much better suited for Jazz.

I wouldn't even want to attempt single line jazz improv on 6 string E13.

How do you figure that the Bb7 is the V of E-7b5? I just see the first 6 bars as a standard minor key 1-6-2-5, i.e:

i - VI7 - ii7b5 - V7b9.

That's a fair question, and a good point. That pesky iim7b5 throws things off, doesn't it?

Minor keys get tricky because there are 3 types of minor. Cycling through each, you end up with offset versions of 1625. But that's only if you don't look below the surface.

I personally see V to I relationships everywhere. I can't help it. That's just how my brain works. Once you notice a pattern, you start seeing it pop up everywhere. There is a V to I relationship, but I misspoke because I speak in shorthand. So good catch!

Dominant chords are your friend. Anytime you see one, you're a V to I movement to where to want to go. But there are also other cheat codes using dominant chords other than V to I movements. V to I is just by far, the most common movement of Dominant chords. But that'll derail the discussion.

A7 is the V7 of Dmin. So what is the V7 of A7? E7. What's a tritone sub for E7? Bb7. Boom. Bb7 is a disguised E7 that's going to A7. But before we go to that A7, we're going to play the iim7b5.

Try just playing Dm, Bb7, A7. It's a sound you've heard A LOT. That is basically the sound of the A section to Bernie's Tune.

I'm always trying to simplify my thinking because you just can't think fast enough on the fly if you insert too many steps into your process.

In fact, try this trick: use the tritone sub of Bb7, which is E7. Play Dm, E7, Em7b5, A7. That E melody note makes a heck of a lot more sense when you put it in the context of a Dominant 2 chord.

Since E7 will also work over the melody, for my brain, switching between E7 to Em7b5 is easier than switching between Bb7 and Em7b5. But in the end, Bb7 and E7 are just related dominant chords.

To me when I see Dm, Bb7, Em7b5, and A7. I see this: Dm (I'm home in minor), Bb7 (I'm really the E7 which is the V7 of A7), Em7b5 (I'm the iim7b5 going to A7), A7 (we're going home to Dm).

Incidentally, this is how arguments start over which are the "correct" chords. Both Bb7 and E7 work and are valid. Obviously something out of left field, like Cmaj7#5 would be wrong. But if an argument over Bb7 vs E7...which is more "right"...that's just dumb. But if you want to end that argument, just listen to the VERY FIRST recording, preferably if the composer is performing it. Whichever chords and melody is on that original recording should be considered "correct". Pretty much, whatever the composer says is correct, is correct. You can't argue with the composer. You can try, but they're probably dead. lol.

The phrase "correct" melody is a minefield of interpretation. For most standards, I would think that term "common" melody would be more applicable. After all, in jazz there is no "definitive" score as there is in classical.

You're right about the minefield of interpretation. There are tons of recordings, so which one is "right", and people will always say "Listen to the recording, and learn it off the record". But they never tell you which recording to listen to and which one is "right".

I've unfortunately been to many a rehearsal where we listened to different recordings of the SAME SONG by different artists and were talking right past one another, wasting time.

That said there IS a correct melody, and there ARE the correct changes. It's the original music as written by the composer. Everything else is a facsimile and subject to debate and artistic interpretation.

There IS a definitive score in Jazz. Want to know the "correct" changes to Oleo? Watch the movie "Girl Crazy" with Mickey Rooney and Judy Garland. That's the broadway musical that "I Got Rhythm" was written for. Oleo uses "rhythm changes" which were taken from "I Got Rhythm". George Gershwin wrote the Score. By the way, listening to the original Broadway musical is ALSO a great way to learn intros and outros. Most of the time, intros and outros are not written in the Real/Fake Books. So if you're prepared, and did your homework, you can FLEX on everybody and do intros to tunes. Singers LOVE that. https://youtu.be/l1m5W5aGzXc?si=xeWMM7mm5s9WQLit

Want to know the "correct" changes to Green Dolphin Street? Watch the black and white film. Listen to the changes. Maybe even look for the original score. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yJdszk9D4PQ

THOSE are the original definitive versions that Jazz artists covered. Yes. Most Jazz music are cover songs. lol. Most of the Great American Songbook of Jazz Standards are covers of Broadway musicals. lol.

In fact, I'd go so far as to say the history of Jazz is taking an original composition and then play a cover of it. Then as time passes, covers of covers of covers occur, and it's like the telephone game. The original song eventually becomes unrecognizable because so many interpretations occurred.

When you listen to and transcribe the original, unadulterated version of a song, then all the other subsequent interpretations start to make sense. But if you start with some super complicated version and try to deconstruct it, that's a lot harder, especially if you're a beginner and just starting out. If you go back far enough, you'll find the original version and it's much more digestible. THAT's the version you should listen to: the original first recording of a song. Nobody tells you that. I don't know why.

Nowadays we are just a few strokes of the keyboard away from finding out where to find the original work.

There are also incorrect melodies, like this terrible chart of Mr. Magic: https://www.ariamus.com/score.php?score=12428

It's literally incorrect. It's not a matter of interpretation, it's just wrong and badly written.

Also, I want to be clear here that I pretty much agree with most of what you've written and I hope I'm not coming off as too argumentative

Absolutely, it's about the analysis, and not anything personal. I think it's important to show the next generation that music can be discussed, learned, and analyzed without causing offense. The two of us talking about our analysis of this tune together IS the process of learning and discovery. It can take place anywhere, and doesn't need to happen solely in a conservatory.

We could be having this discussion at a bus stop, and gain every bit the same amount of insight as a classroom.

You don't need to go to conservatory to learn this stuff. College tuition is far too expensive anyhow. AI bots search through the text of this forum all the time, so hopefully it does some good for some kids in the future.

I enjoyed it! Talking about music and analyzing stuff keeps my brain going. I'm so used to my shortcuts in thinking, that I forgot how I got there in the first place. It's really good to retrace the path again.

Thanks for chiming in!

[Twayn Williams]

This is going to take a bit, so I'll probably break it up into multiple responses instead of one huge unreadable reply

To make things a bit more streamlined, I'll talk briefly about my education, only so we can see where I'm coming from, not any sort of attempt to assert any kind of authority! I have 2 Bachelor of Music degrees from the Conservatory of Music at the University of Missouri Kansas City (a classical music school) in Music Composition and Guitar Performance. My theory knowledge stems from both my classical background and my current work in the Portland swing/gypsy jazz scene. Frankly, I find jazz theory to be far more practical than most of what I learned in school!

You're right in that the E is a melody note based upon the b5 or #11 of a chord. I would point out that there IS a difference between a b5 and a #11. The #11 is in the next higher octave, it's an *extension*.

I do agree that you want to avoid minor 2nds (sometimes they can sound nice though). That said, much like there is a difference between a b5 and a #11 (octave displacement), a minor 2nd and a b9 are an octave displaced.

Indeed, but I treat b5 vs #11 as a difference without a distinction. So to me, a Bb7b5 === Bb7#11. However, this is really just how I look at it as a practical matter on the guitar, i.e. I'm never going to play both a flat and a natural 5 at the same time. A pianist might have a very different take on it.

The main point being that if I see a b5 or a #11 in a chord chart, if I can't grab that note in the chord I'm playing, I'm going to avoid the 5th entirely because it's very likely that if I don't, I will be playing a minor 2nd against whoever is playing the melody, especially when it's two guitars!

Bust out that 6 string E13 and actually play the chord progression of Dm, Bb7, Em7b5, A7.

I think if you did try it, you'd have more problems than playing a #11 chord. You'd have problems just playing a D minor triad, much less an Em7b5 chord.

Playing jazz on 6 string E13 seems to me like an exercise in futility and frustration. C6 or A6 are much better suited for Jazz.

I wouldn't even want to attempt single line jazz improv on 6 string E13.

Dm - 1st fret, 1-2-4 or 6th fret 3-4-5 (Dm7) OR 3rd fret 3-4-5-6 (Dm6)
Bb7 - 6th fret 3-4-5-6 (rootless Bb9) or I'll often just use a dyad to get the b7-5 at 4th fret 1-2 or 9th fret 3-4
Em7b5 - 8th fret 3-4-5-6
A7 - 5th fret 3-4-5-6 (rootless A9) or again, the dyads at fret 3 1-2 or fret 9 3-4

For the above, in the key of D minor, that rootless A7 would have a B natural in it instead of a Bb, so the grip would instead be 3-4-6 to avoid the out of key 9th. Or a slant diminished could theoretically be used, but I probably wouldn't bother. And on the Bb chord, to avoid playing an F natural again the melody E, the grip would be 4-5-6 -- not a very satisfying voicing I admit...

One of the reasons I landed on E13 for improvisation is the 2 major seconds using a straight bar, i.e. strings 2-3 and 4-5. It also lends itself to a pair of ii-V-I pockets. In the key of C, frets 1 and 2 and frets 6 and 8. The intervallic structure of strings 3-4-5 is the same as C6 2-3-4. And finally, both the first string E and the third string B are the major chord root notes, which means since I automatically know all of the notes on those two strings from guitar, I can sight read (most) chord charts at tempo.

[Twayn Williams]

How do you figure that the Bb7 is the V of E-7b5? I just see the first 6 bars as a standard minor key 1-6-2-5, i.e:

i - VI7 - ii7b5 - V7b9.

A7 is the V7 of Dmin. So what is the V7 of A7? E7. What's a tritone sub for E7? Bb7. Boom. Bb7 is a disguised E7 that's going to A7. But before we go to that A7, we're going to play the iim7b5.

Hmm, I guess I can see that. The melody line does indicate an E chord pretty strongly.

That said there IS a correct melody, and there ARE the correct changes. It's the original music as written by the composer. Everything else is a facsimile and subject to debate and artistic interpretation.

I'm going to have to disagree with you on this. There are plenty examples of composers tweaking tunes as time goes on, or simply playing a slight different version, depending on the situation and instrumentation at hand.

I Got Rhythm

Gershwin on piano
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oQdeTbUDCiw

Ethel Merman
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oQdeTbUDCiw

Judy Garland
https://www.dailymotion.com/video/xf50k3

However, going back and listening to the most original version is often useful.

More later

[David DeLoach]

Not a lead sheet, but a rhythm guitar sheet from a big band I played in for awhile. Had to be able to spell these chords and select the guitar voicings that contained the best color tones, AND flowed without jumping all over the fretboard. Some of these tunes were FAST (300 BPM). Being able to easily spell all these chords with their alterations and extensions was needed to navigate these changes. A couple vids are below. Being able to understand harmony is a big help in untangling voicings on lap steel.

With the big band:https://youtu.be/YQ-08A1N1sA

Faster tune wIth the little big band: https://youtu.be/N8U7dOLPXH4

[Dale Rottacker]

[Michael Kiese]

Aloha,

To anyone reading this discussion from the outside looking in: Please take note that this discussion stemmed from David M Brown's critique on whether this chart of Bernie's tune is "right" or "wrong" based upon a Bb9 chord. lol.

This is why I just prefer chords written as simply as possible. Bb7 gets it done. E7 is even better and simpler because Bb7 is a tritone sub of E7. If you scratch the surface deep enough, you'll see a V to I relationship.

It doesn't matter if you grew up working class in Hawaii and went through the public school system like me, or if you went to music conservatory and hold music degrees. A Bb7 chord is a Bb7 chord, and an E7 chord is an E7 chord. Whether an E melody note played over either chord sounds good is up to the listener.

But still, the discussion has merit, because analyzing melody and harmony and bouncing perspectives back and forth is where the learning occurs.

It's important to me to demonstrate to others the process of learning music can occur anywhere. Not everybody has the opportunity to formally study music in University.

[Michael Kiese]

A7 is the V7 of Dmin. So what is the V7 of A7? E7. What's a tritone sub for E7? Bb7. Boom. Bb7 is a disguised E7 that's going to A7. But before we go to that A7, we're going to play the iim7b5.

Hmm, I guess I can see that. The melody line does indicate an E chord pretty strongly.

yeah, cause that's what the Bb7 chord really is, just a tritone sub for secondary dominant.

[Michael Kiese]

Not a lead sheet, but a rhythm guitar sheet from a big band I played in for awhile. Had to be able to spell these chords and select the guitar voicings that contained the best color tones, AND flowed without jumping all over the fretboard. Some of these tunes were FAST (300 BPM). Being able to easily spell all these chords with their alterations and extensions was needed to navigate these changes. A couple vids are below. Being able to understand harmony is a big help in untangling voicings on lap steel.

With the big band:https://youtu.be/YQ-08A1N1sA

Faster tune wIth the little big band: https://youtu.be/N8U7dOLPXH4

Nice work on those tunes David!

Whenever I had to play charts like that, I'd just abandon the extensions, unless if it was a specific hit with the band. At high tempos, the chords fly past so quick, it's hard to appreciate the extensions unless it was some kind of simple chromatic movement.

How did analyzing the chart you posted give you insight or breakthroughs on steel? Would you be willing to share?

[Michael Kiese]

Dm - 1st fret, 1-2-4 or 6th fret 3-4-5 (Dm7) OR 3rd fret 3-4-5-6 (Dm6)
Bb7 - 6th fret 3-4-5-6 (rootless Bb9) or I'll often just use a dyad to get the b7-5 at 4th fret 1-2 or 9th fret 3-4
Em7b5 - 8th fret 3-4-5-6
A7 - 5th fret 3-4-5-6 (rootless A9) or again, the dyads at fret 3 1-2 or fret 9 3-4

For the above, in the key of D minor, that rootless A7 would have a B natural in it instead of a Bb, so the grip would instead be 3-4-6 to avoid the out of key 9th. Or a slant diminished could theoretically be used, but I probably wouldn't bother. And on the Bb chord, to avoid playing an F natural again the melody E, the grip would be 4-5-6 -- not a very satisfying voicing I admit...

One of the reasons I landed on E13 for improvisation is the 2 major seconds using a straight bar, i.e. strings 2-3 and 4-5. It also lends itself to a pair of ii-V-I pockets. In the key of C, frets 1 and 2 and frets 6 and 8. The intervallic structure of strings 3-4-5 is the same as C6 2-3-4. And finally, both the first string E and the third string B are the major chord root notes, which means since I automatically know all of the notes on those two strings from guitar, I can sight read (most) chord charts at tempo.

Aloha Twayne,

I'd love to hear you play through that on E13! Would you be kind enough to upload a video and share?

I've never witnessed anyone playing a jazz tune and take an improvised solo on straight steel E13.

[Tim Toberer]

I've never witnessed anyone playing a jazz tune and take an improvised solo on straight steel E13.

If you search the forum for E13 + Vance Terry, Leon Mcauliffe, Noel Boggs etc. there are a handful of transcriptions and it seems 90 to 95% is on the top 6 strings, so this tuning seems pretty functional. I am guessing it is D-F#-G#-B-C#-E ? These guys made a living on these strings. The top 4 strings are just E6 so single line seems pretty straightforward as well. plenty to work with here. Sometimes I long for the simplicity of 6 strings and no pedals, only sometimes though.

[David DeLoach]

Nice work on those tunes David!

Whenever I had to play charts like that, I'd just abandon the extensions, unless if it was a specific hit with the band. At high tempos, the chords fly past so quick, it's hard to appreciate the extensions unless it was some kind of simple chromatic movement.

How did analyzing the chart you posted give you insight or breakthroughs on steel? Would you be willing to share?

Sure.

First, let me say that I want to be a jazz lap steel player when I grow up, but I'm currently far from that goal. My idea of being a jazz lap steel player is to have memorized a LOT of jazz tunes, and burned them in where I can comp, play the melody, and solo over those tunes in any key. So yes, I am FAR from that goal.

But here is how analyzing big band guitar charts has helped me with "jazz" lap steel playing.

Before I started playing in big bands, I never gave much thought to chords like Bb9(#11). But coming across chords like this, in the context of a song, had me not just spelling the chords out to know what options I had to play the best choice of notes out of the chord (sometimes just 3 or 4 notes per chord when playing big band rhythm). So there was an analytical aspect of expanding my knowledge and understanding of music theory.

But more valuable than the analytical growth, was the maturing of my EARS to hear chords like this in a tune. I use the analogy that when I was 10 years old, all I wanted on my hamburger was ketchup and salt. But as I got older, I acquired a taste for onions, pickles, tomatoes, etc. In the same way, as I played tunes using these altered/upper extension chords, my ears matured to a point where I appreciated the tension of these chords - chords I likely would not have used prior to my exposure to them.

How does this apply to getting around on my 8 string lap steel tuned to extended Leavitt tuning?

Knowing how to spell these chords, and seeing how to SUBSTITUTE them in a tune has enhanced by lap steel playing. Seeing how substitute chords work in these big band charts was eye opening to me. Big band charts tend to have a ton of substituted chords. I was able to play charts arranged by Nelson Riddle, Richard Wess, Quincy Jones, etc. and those guys really were artists when it comes to taking the harmony of a tune down unexpected paths. I volunteered to be the librarian of the big band so that I could keep all the charts at my house - and study them!

Knowing all the notes on all strings of my lap steel and seeing where these chords - or one, some, or all of the chord tones - lay on the lap steel really opens up more creative options for me.

While I have spent decades studying theory (actually wrote a. jazz guitar book that was used at Berklee School of Music for awhile), I find studying theory, practicing scales/modes/arpeggios, etc. is similar to NFL players working out in the weight room. Working out on weights - exercising - makes them STRONGER, but during a game they don't bring weights onto the field, instead they PLAY football. In the same way, studying/practicing theory is a great exercise that makes us stronger better players, but when it comes to playing, I like to turn off my brain and just play what comes natural and easy - play what sounds good. If I want to come up with a solo over a new set of changes, I'll record those changes and then record myself singing/scatting over the changes, and then go back and transcribe what I sang/scatted and learn the best way to play it on steel. This approach helps develop my phrasing.

Hope that makes sense!

David

P.S. Here is a link to a big band album I played on: https://open.spotify.com/album/4S0I5FZP ... B_0YdsjJew. The story behind this is that the band filmed a live show for PBS. But they were unhappy with the guitarist's playing and had me come into the studio in Nashville and overdub all the guitar parts. They gave me the charts and 2 days to prepare. For those 2 days if I was awake, I was practicing/studying those charts. It was a huge challenge and I was pretty nervous as there were a lot of top shelf players in this band, big Nashville studio, big producer, etc. and these tunes were not easy. But by the Grace of God I nailed all the songs in one or two takes. After doing about 6 songs the producer said, "You've got this. I don't need to hang out here." and he left. So in the unlikely chance you see/saw this PBS show, you see one guitarist on the video, but it's actually me playing. After this studio session they made me the guitarist for the band.

[Michael Kiese]

I just sat down at the piano, and played the first 4 bars of Bernie's Tune.

The E melody note over a Bb7 chord sounds just fine to me. In fact, I like how it sounds. But you should be the judge.

https://youtube.com/shorts/UQfvAJ-tODg? ... dikMFCb155

I've found that just trying things out and hearing it for myself is helpful. It really beats talking past one another with music theory.

I played it over an E7 chord too, and that works, but I didn't bother making a video. lol.

I tried it on both guitar and piano. To my ear, it sounds good. I like the crunch and the dissonance. If you played it as a Bb#11 chord or Bb9b5, it takes the spicy "head turning" character out of the chord.

To me, it seems like that melody note is supposed to crunch against that Bb7.

The Bernie's Tune lead sheet is a good lead sheet. I certainly wouldn't call it wrong over splitting hairs of that one chord. But that's just me.

Someone contact Chuck Sher and ask him what he thinks. lol.

[Michael Kiese]

If you search the forum for E13 + Vance Terry, Leon Mcauliffe, Noel Boggs etc. there are a handful of transcriptions and it seems 90 to 95% is on the top 6 strings, so this tuning seems pretty functional. I am guessing it is D-F#-G#-B-C#-E ? These guys made a living on these strings. The top 4 strings are just E6 so single line seems pretty straightforward as well. plenty to work with here. Sometimes I long for the simplicity of 6 strings and no pedals, only sometimes though.

Aloha Tim,

Thanks for chiming in! Yes, I'm familiar with Noel Bogg's E13. It's also the same E13 that Jules Ah See uses. I have it on one of my necks on my Q8 Stringmaster. It's pretty much a strum tuning.

Leon Mcaullife's E13 is slightly different. When I listen to recordings of Noel and Leon, they pretty much did that strum chord melody approach, not that single line approach like Joaquin Murphey.

That said, I really WOULD love to hear someone play some single line improv playing through changes on 6 string E13. That would be a treat.

[Twayn Williams]

I'd love to hear you play through that on E13! Would you be kind enough to upload a video and share?

I've never witnessed anyone playing a jazz tune and take an improvised solo on straight steel E13.

Hmmm. I don't do videos and I don't really like to play minor tunes on steel, or even guitar for that matter. I'm much more of a major key guy -- which makes me the odd one out in gypsy jazz circles!

Still, I'll see if I have some time this weekend and if I can figure it out how to do it on my phone, I'll see if I can't get some sort of rough thing done.

[Michael Kiese]

Before I started playing in big bands, I never gave much thought to chords like Bb9(#11). But coming across chords like this, in the context of a song, had me not just spelling the chords out to know what options I had to play the best choice of notes out of the chord (sometimes just 3 or 4 notes per chord when playing big band rhythm). So there was an analytical aspect of expanding my knowledge and understanding of music theory.

You know when you think about it, a Bb9(#11) kind is screaming at you that it is E augmented in disguise.

If you just played an E augmented triad, those are the juicy notes of a Bb9(#11).

But more valuable than the analytical growth, was the maturing of my EARS to hear chords like this in a tune. I use the analogy that when I was 10 years old, all I wanted on my hamburger was ketchup and salt. But as I got older, I acquired a taste for onions, pickles, tomatoes, etc. In the same way, as I played tunes using these altered/upper extension chords, my ears matured to a point where I appreciated the tension of these chords - chords I likely would not have used prior to my exposure to them.

Thanks for elaborating!

Anything specific to the chart that you shared that you can use as an example of how to apply to steel?

In fact, would you like to offer your analysis of the chart you shared for the good of the thread? I see 1625 language at I, it goes to the IV chord at J, ii V7 I at K.... But I really would like to hear your interpretation if you're willing!

[Michael Kiese]

I don't really like to play minor tunes on steel, or even guitar for that matter. I'm much more of a major key guy.

HAHA, I HEARD THAT! LOLz. I ain't mad at ya.

Minor keys and chords are a weakness of mine on C6. I'm still mapping out my minor chord slants. They're there, but applying them is another matter entirely.

Still, if you get around to it, I'd love to hear you do stuff on that six string E13!

[David DeLoach]

Anything specific to the chart that you shared that you can use as an example of how to apply to steel?

In fact, would you like to offer your analysis of the chart you shared for the good of the thread? I see 1625 language at I, it goes to the IV chord at J, ii V7 I at K.... But I really would like to hear your interpretation if you're willing!

Sure. I'll try to write up the harmonic analysis this weekend,

As for it applies to steel, harmonic analysis would really apply to any instrument (guitar, piano, etc,), As I used to tell my students, "A note is a note, no matter what instrument is playing it." However, a lap steel does have its challenges when it comes to complex harmonic playing. Given that we are challenged by the tuning and the limitations of the tone bar. Even with slants/reverse slants we are limited in how many chord tones can be played simultaneously in comparison to guitar or piano (however, horn players are limited to one note at a time). To compensate for this, lap steel players must think about what chord tones sound best when harmonizing the melody or comping, and where to find those chord tones. I experimented with various 8 string extended Leavitt tunings until I came up with this one, which contains every interval inside of an octave, and therefore a lot more chord tone options than the C6, E13, and B11 tunings.

A - C# - E - G - Bb - C - D - Eb (low to high)

When it comes to single note playing we lap steel players are again challenged by the tone bar and the picking hand. When I eventually retire and hope to have more time to practice, one of the efforts I hope to focus on in the wood shed is reaching a higher level of single note playing on lap steel. This would involve picking technique which palm mutes the unplayed strings and increasing my speed/agility in picking (by focusing on a Thumb-1st finger-Thumb-2nd finger-Thumb-1st finger-Thumb-2nd finger etc.) right hand picking pattern - both rapidly on a single string, and rapidly across the strings/skipping strings playing only one or two notes per string. Additionally, I hope to develop my tone bar technique, having the tip of the tone bar touch only one string at a time, and enhancing my ability to rapidly moving the tip of the tone bar from string to string and up & down the fretboard while having good intonation - while muting unplayed strings. I'm sure there are lap steel players who have already mastered these techniques. While we lap steel players have more challenges to conquer than guitarists or pianists, the "limitations" of lap steel will likely produce a creative approach to comping and soloing that guitarists and pianists may not be able to emulate.

Is the investment of time & effort worth it? Is the juice worth the squeeze? Mastering non-commercial music on a non-commercial instrument. I don't think many of us are plowing the lap steel field in hopes of fame and fortune. But as my daughter, who was a successful music booking agent in Nashville told me, "Dad, play music that you absolutely love and see where it takes you."

[Lee Baucum]

I want to play rhythm guitar like David when I grow up!

David, have you played rhythm with any Gypsy jazz groups?

[Tim Toberer]

When it comes to single note playing we lap steel players are again challenged by the tone bar and the picking hand. When I eventually retire and hope to have more time to practice, one of the efforts I hope to focus on in the wood shed is reaching a higher level of single note playing on lap steel. This would involve picking technique which palm mutes the unplayed strings and increasing my speed/agility in picking (by focusing on a Thumb-1st finger-Thumb-2nd finger-Thumb-1st finger-Thumb-2nd finger etc.) right hand picking pattern - both rapidly on a single string, and rapidly across the strings/skipping strings playing only one or two notes per string. Additionally, I hope to develop my tone bar technique, having the tip of the tone bar touch only one string at a time, and enhancing my ability to rapidly moving the tip of the tone bar from string to string and up & down the fretboard while having good intonation - while muting unplayed strings. I'm sure there are lap steel players who have already mastered these techniques. While we lap steel players have more challenges to conquer than guitarists or pianists, the "limitations" of lap steel will likely produce a creative approach to comping and soloing that guitarists and pianists may not be able to emulate.

Is the investment of time & effort worth it? Is the juice worth the squeeze? Mastering non-commercial music on a non-commercial instrument. I don't think many of us are plowing the lap steel field in hopes of fame and fortune. But as my daughter, who was a successful music booking agent in Nashville told me, "Dad, play music that you absolutely love and see where it takes you."

I have to say, I feel better knowing that even the most advanced players on the forum have a tough time with this stuff!

[Tim Toberer]

[
HAHA, I HEARD THAT! LOLz. I ain't mad at ya.

Minor keys and chords are a weakness of mine on C6. I'm still mapping out my minor chord slants. They're there, but applying them is another matter entirely.

When I first started playing on C6 I couldn't understand why minor tunes seem so difficult, I thank Mike Neer for the revelation that a minor 7th doesn't make a good 1 chord. It doesn't sound resolved. A minor 6th or Minor/Major chord is much better and these sounds are not easily accessible in this tuning. It is funny that on most lead sheets minor tunes are almost exclusively written with a minor 7 as the 1 chord!

[Twayn Williams]

When I first started playing on C6 I couldn't understand why minor tunes seem so difficult, I thank Mike Neer for the revelation that a minor 7th doesn't make a good 1 chord. It doesn't sound resolved. A minor 6th or Minor/Major chord is much better and these sounds are not easily accessible in this tuning. It is funny that on most lead sheets minor tunes are almost exclusively written with a minor 7 as the 1 chord!

One of the things that got absolutely hammered into my head when I started playing gypsy is that a minor I chord in swing tunes should frequently be played as a Im6 -- ala Minor Swing -- but for Latin tunes, use a Im7. Half the time I just use a vanilla minor chord though

E13 (6-string) has a minor 6th chord on the bottom 4 strings. I don't use it for that purpose very often as it's a very thick sound and I tend to like lighter, less congested tones. I do use it more often for m7b5 and rootless dominant ninth chords though.

[Miles Lang]

Aloha Everyone,

Just thought I'd start a new thread for the good of the order.

Good of the order? That reminds me of my DeMolay days!